EU referendum date to be announced today

[daz2905]

According to reports the EU referendum date will be announced today.

 

Before the arguments for and against i think it would be interesting to see how we would vote and then hold another poll a couple of days before and see how we feel after it's been debated.

 

Please remember to vote in the poll above:

 

How will you vote and what influences your vote?

 

The date is now announced JUNE 23rd

[ktv303]

the EU is so far up multi nationals wotsit all the mep's must have chocolate hair. TTIP etc.

it also makes fifa look like a well run charity with all its corruption.

 

but if we leave then we are fooked in my opinion as all our hard fought rights would instantly vanish and we'd be back to victorian working conditions and living standards in months.

 

so im in.

[Rigout]

Get us out ASAP.

 

We need to be able to make our own laws and decide who can and can't come in to our country.

 

The EU is like a leech taking our blood, sweat and tears on a daily basis while our own people cannot afford to live.

 

We give millions away every day whilst borrowing to keep cash in the bank, this cannot go on. The British tax revenues should pay for the population of the UK not the whole world. This is the same as the NHS, it's not free we all pay for it through NI contributions. Those that haven't contributed shouldn't get a seat at the table.

 

The EU is not good for the British people, the sooner we learn that the better.

 

We have been a great country in the past and we can be again but not while under the control of the EU. You only have to look as something as simple as the Eurovision Contest, they hate us and will do anything to put us down.

 

Many people died in two world wars to protect our freedoms and we're just letting them be taken away day by day by the EU or should I say France and Germany.

 

Wake up people, think of your family, your friends and anyone else you know that you care for their future.

 

Think of all the times when they've demanded more money from use because our economy is doing well so we need to be punished.

 

Last year Poland got 48 billion in funding from the EU while we got around 4.3 billion.

 

We can do this, we can be strong again and stand on our own two feet with our own voice at the top table instead of being just a star on an EU Flag.

[Snuffs99]

I'm in the out camp....

[philmein]

I'm no europhile so it's out

[Minty]

Out for me!

[Mr_Spark]

VAT was introduced in the UK to pay for the cost of being in the EU at the very start

 

The cost as gone up and up in many ways since

 

Out for me

[jakdos]

On balance, the out camp for me.

 

My concern though, is that while these vast sums of money are being banded about for what we pay in, we don't ever hear how we benefit financially as a country. The other thing is that Scotland will probably then vote to leave the union.

[Snuffs99]

Good, Scotland should bugger off, they do nothin for us and I'm fed up of hearing about them wanting to leave the uk, they had the choice and stayed so they should now suck it up and stop threatening new votes etc....like a spoilt child spitting their dummy out each time they don't get their own way when in reality they get more per head than the rest of the uk.

[jakdos]

Good, Scotland should bugger off, they do nothin for us and I'm fed up of hearing about them wanting to leave the uk, they had the choice and stayed so they should now suck it up and stop threatening new votes etc....like a spoilt child spitting their dummy out each time they don't get their own way when in reality they get more per head than the rest of the uk.

 

LOL, what was I thinking

[ktv303]

We stop funding your "I'm alright Jack" attitude n yous Will be even more fucked than yous are now haha.

 

sent from my phone

[Vixen]

Out for me

[Snuffs99]

We stop funding your "I'm alright Jack" attitude n yous Will be even more fucked than yous are now haha.

 

sent from my phone

 

You fund nothing tbh mate (dont even mention the oil) and its a shame Scotland as a whole did choose to stay with the UK, i'd have loved to see Scotland go at it alone with your "yous be more fucked than you are now" attitudes.

 

My money was on Scotland eating humble pie long before we were.

 

Either way back on track i suppose.

 

For me the UK being part of the Eu has done nothing for the UK. Unless your a criminal and want to invoke the human rights act or an illegal immigrant who wants to invoke the human rights act, or a refugee etc etc then the EU is a waste of our time IMHO. Lets fook Europe off, get back control of our own boarders and move on.

 

 

Re:

 

Snuffs

[ktv303]

We fund Westminster even without bringing oil into it mate. Facts are facts.

And "as a whole" you mean a baw hair over half.

 

Democracy eh haha.

 

I'd say the eu has done loads for the uk...have a wee walk round your area n see how many wee blue starry flag are on all your regeneration sites.

 

But apart from that I'll stick to the civil rights laws that they gave/enforced on us (wherever your point of view is)

 

sent from my phone

[Fon]

Im in the out camp,

 

But, Can anyone name one EU law, that they have to follow that they wouldn't have to if we left?

 

Fon

[georgedawes]

Im in the out camp,

 

But, Can anyone name one EU law, that they have to follow that they wouldn't have to if we left?

 

Fon

 

The Working Time Directive.

 

Biggest load of sh**e invented.

 

If and only if, you want to work overtime. You should be allowed to and not have to opt out of the WTD or have a workplace agreement in place!

 

Oh!! Out of the EU by the way!!

[Fon]

So that law doesn't actually effect you then as you have opted out?

 

Fon

[Snuffs99]

We fund Westminster even without bringing oil into it mate. Facts are facts.

 

Well suppose that depends which "facts" you want to believe. Agree to disagree mate as neither of us is going to waver.

 

I'd say the eu has done loads for the uk...have a wee walk round your area n see how many wee blue starry flag are on all your regeneration sites.

 

 

Only because if they had the union jack on them it would no doubt be "racist".

 

 

 

But apart from that I'll stick to the civil rights laws that they gave/enforced on us (wherever your point of view is)

 

sent from my phone

 

Can see where your coming from but i'm fed up of those same laws being used far more effectively by criminals and illegal immigrants than any every day joe bloggs etc, etc. In fact i can't remember the last time i read a story where a civil law was used for something other than getting a criminal his memory foam pillow or allowing an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK after his release from prison for crimes. But he has a fucking cat so is entitled to stay as not to breach his human rights etc etc.

 

 

Re:

 

Snuffs

[georgedawes]

So that law doesn't actually effect you then as you have opted out?

 

Fon

 

Grey area Fon!

 

You can opt out of WTD meaning that you can work more, but then you get shafted with another one. You can't work more than 60hrs.

 

Its a ballache to explain and keep on top of.

 

Some quick facts for ya.

 

WTD Reading

[Diddy]

The WTD was a well intended piece of legislation. At the end of the day who the fook WANTS to work more than 48 hours a week ? We work to live not the other way round. Anyway for the minority who want to work all hours then the opt out basically covers it. For the record I have worked 70 hour weeks AFTER this directive became law, Because at the time it suited me too for a short period - Before the directive companies used to compel workers to work silly hours. But if you want to work it you still can.

---

The deal Cameron announced is just a bland bit of pr that was designed to try to convert undecided's. It is not going to sway a committed out voter, nor is it going to infuriate a committed in voter. So apart from straight bananas (another piece of BS from the out camp from about 10 years ago lol...what has the EU done for us

1. Discrimination laws - Simple fact is people were and still are discriminated against for various reasons not only skin colour or religion.....Not acceptable in today's advanced world, we are supposed to have moved on as a society.

2. Equal pay......Need I say more

3. Cheap mobile calls in EU ....handy for us all

4. Longer warranties on the stuff we buy - EU consumer law

5. Clean rivers - not a bad thing is it ?

6. The working time directive for reasons in above post AS WELL as the fact that part of that law entitles the worker to paid leave - Is this bad ?

7. compo for waiting all day in an airport for delayed flights - good for the punter

8. You or your kids can study anywhere in the EU...some places for FREE

9. Cheap airlines/flights

it's really a bit like the scene from The Life Or Brian where they ask What have the Romans ever done for us......then the cast start to go off on one about all the improvements they have had since the occupation lol...funny film with a lot of true to life thinking behind it.

Now with all that said there is plenty wrong.....but spitting out the dummy and jumping out the pram would I believe cost us all something.

[daz2905]

The WTD was a well intended piece of legislation. At the end of the day who the fook WANTS to work more than 48 hours a week ? We work to live not the other way round. Anyway for the minority who want to work all hours then the opt out basically covers it. For the record I have worked 70 hour weeks AFTER this directive became law, Because at the time it suited me too for a short period - Before the directive companies used to compel workers to work silly hours. But if you want to work it you still can.

---

The deal Cameron announced is just a bland bit of pr that was designed to try to convert undecided's. It is not going to sway a committed out voter, nor is it going to infuriate a committed in voter. So apart from straight bananas (another piece of BS from the out camp from about 10 years ago lol...what has the EU done for us

1. Discrimination laws - Simple fact is people were and still are discriminated against for various reasons not only skin colour or religion.....Not acceptable in today's advanced world, we are supposed to have moved on as a society.

2. Equal pay......Need I say more

3. Cheap mobile calls in EU ....handy for us all

4. Longer warranties on the stuff we buy - EU consumer law

5. Clean rivers - not a bad thing is it ?

6. The working time directive for reasons in above post AS WELL as the fact that part of that law entitles the worker to paid leave - Is this bad ?

7. compo for waiting all day in an airport for delayed flights - good for the punter

8. You or your kids can study anywhere in the EU...some places for FREE

9. Cheap airlines/flights

it's really a bit like the scene from The Life Or Brian where they ask What have the Romans ever done for us......then the cast start to go off on one about all the improvements they have had since the occupation lol...funny film with a lot of true to life thinking behind it.

Now with all that said there is plenty wrong.....but spitting out the dummy and jumping out the pram would I believe cost us all something.

 

1. The same laws that prevent us from kicking out terrorists. And as a white, straight, 40 something male don't do a damn thing for me.

2. Equal pay. We are a country of business and commerce, do you think we would not have achieved this and point 1 without Europe.

3.Cheap calls, yeah that one has changed my whole life, not.

4. Longer warranties, yeah because the retailers and manufacturers honour them, we know they don't but UK law also makes the same provision.

5. Clean rivers, again, i think we can achieve this without europe.

6. The working time directive. I can't comment, i'm self employed and choose to work longer.

7. Compensation for waiting in airports. Ok a good thing but not really a huge benefit to anyone.

8.Studying in the EU. If we didn't have to pay so much into europe then perhaps we could lower or scrap tuition fees in this country.

9. Cheap flights. This has more to do with competition between airlines. Ok they may charge us higher prices to land uk plains but not really a huge amount more.

 

Fact is that we currently pay over 18 billion per year to EU and we receive less than half of that back in subsidies with the biggest chunk going to the farmers.This still means that the EU costs us over 25 million per day after taking into account the subsidies we receive.

Not to mention the crazy amount we pay in benefits to EU citizens that claim here and the goverments attempts to renegotiate that were blocked by eastern European mamber states. We got nothing from the deal that Cameron tried to negotiate to prevent us leaving.

We have the fifth largest economy in the world, import more from europe than we export and pay about 20 percent of the EU's total budget. We are not on a weak position by any means. Short term we are likely to suffer but long term we are forecast to be stronger. They may try to make life difficult for us to import goods into europe but don't forget about the european courts, they are still governed by their own laws and will not be able to force through unfair laws.

We won't be the ones suffering if we leave the EU, it will be the rest of the EU that will suffer. We will thrive without them.

Also we need to control immigration rather than be forced into a quota system by Europe that will eventually allow migrants to enter legally under the freedom of movement.

And for all these great laws they introduce, deals are being done to try and get Turkey into the EU. How the hell a country with such an appalling human rights record can be considered is beyond me. Then again if Putin gets his way, Turkey will be little more than a ashes in the near future.

 

I voted to leave in case you didn't guess

[Diddy]

1. The same laws that prevent us from kicking out terrorists. And as a white, straight, 40 something male don't do a damn thing for me.

2. Equal pay. We are a country of business and commerce, do you think we would not have achieved this and point 1 without Europe.

3.Cheap calls, yeah that one has changed my whole life, not.

4. Longer warranties, yeah because the retailers and manufacturers honour them, we know they don't but UK law also makes the same provision.

5. Clean rivers, again, i think we can achieve this without europe.

6. The working time directive. I can't comment, i'm self employed and choose to work longer.

7. Compensation for waiting in airports. Ok a good thing but not really a huge benefit to anyone.

8.Studying in the EU. If we didn't have to pay so much into europe then perhaps we could lower or scrap tuition fees in this country.

9. Cheap flights. This has more to do with competition between airlines. Ok they may charge us higher prices to land uk plains but not really a huge amount more.

 

1. So it's a case of it doesn't effect ME so im alright jack ? Excellent

2. No we never got there before EU and still have to take companies to court to enforce this EU law so NO we didn't and wouldn't have

3. Again it doesn't help YOU but what about people who drive in the all over the EU for a living.....but yes I get the theme if it does not affect YOU personally .....

4. Yes they do honour them and I have personally used this fantastic EU law.......again just because YOU have not been able to use it......

5. Never even looked at cleaning up our rivers before being "forced" to look at the problem...so nope we would not have been doing it

6. As your self employed the WTD does not effect you.....im getting a picture here

7. It's still a benefit ffs

8. Really ? So it wasn't the banking sector crash in 2008 that left us fucked and unable to pay tuition fees(i know im asking people to think back more than a fortnight but still ffs)

9. Cheap flights is to do with competition - Competition that came about because of the EU directive forcing member countries to open their air space up to competition....have a look back to the early 90's for the legislation

 

So we now have a picture of why you want out of europe lol...because YOU don't benefit from it lol. There are many vocal just like you....Unfortunately for all you EU haters just like the scottish referendum the bookies are very rarely wrong. They are currently offering best price 2-1 across all bookies for brexit....

[daz2905]

The reason i want out of europe is because i'm worried where it will end. We are heading towards European control and in 20 years time will be governed by them with our government being little more then a borough council while all the decisions are made in Brussels. What really hit home recently was how Merkel tried to strong arm the other european states into accepting Syrians. Her decision to accept them has been a disaster for Germany and thank god we resisted. I have no problem helping people in danger, it's something we should do but accepting hundreds of thousands of mainly young male muslims in the current political climate is crazy.

And yes, of course i'm going to vote in a way that i feel benefits me, my family and the people closest to me. It's my vote, nobody else's.

Ultimately i think you and the bookies are right, the vote will be to stay in. Just like Scotland, when it comes to the crunch people don't want their lifes to change and are worried the out vote will take away what they have and they'll be worse off. The latest poll shows a complete lack of understanding though. Cameron walked away from those negotiation with next to nothing and yet 35 percent thought he did well, 30 percent thought he did badly and 35 percent don't know how he did.

Either way, we vote and follow the democratic path. I respect yours and other peoples opinions, at least those intelligent enough to have one. I just don't agree with them but would have possibly voted to stay if Cameron had secured some kind of deal on immigration and benefit payments. As far as i am concerned people that come here to work and integrate are welcome and will help build a better country with an ageing population. Those who come here to claim benefits, don't have skills and won't integrate are not welcome. We pay so much into Europe and the deal Cameron got just shows how little influence we have.

[Diddy]

I gave the good points as a reminder daz. I did finish up my original post by saying that there is a lot wrong. But you can't change much from the outside pissing in. There is not enough information coming from the stay side about the benefits then we can all decide just like in a general election. I do wonder weather this lack of information is a ploy to keep the "scared to leave" firmly in that train of thought...would not surprise me one bit to be honest and that is coming from someone who at the moment intends to vote to stay...the stay campaign has been shit just like the stay campaign in Scotland was for indy ref - they are focusing on the negatives of leaving rather than the positives of staying. Hardly anyone really knows what the EU does (In the UK) - Most people think all they do is flood UK with cheap labour and send people to claim our benefits (Germany and republic of Ireland have MUCH better benefits BTW.) and refuse to allow us to deport people....That is what you will read in almost every newspaper you pick up, It is certainly what you will hear if you watch almost any news channel apart from BBC...and then they call the BBC biased because they dare to follow the other direction.

 

Here is another thing that annoys the hell out of me with regards to borders - We as a country are so concerned about our borders we don't even bother to count accurately who and how many are coming in and going out - We have cut and continue to cut our border force to that of a laughable minimum...it really is a joke if you think about it. I don't agree with open borders I don't think anybody should be allowed into uk without a job guarantee ....I don't hear this from the politicians.....We have also got to acknowledge that a huge part of our problems are to do with companies employing cheap/illegal labour. These companies and practices are as old as the hills and these companies will still be here weather we are in or out of the EU. The EU vision is admirable imho.....but common sense must also prevail - open up to poorer countries but with restrictions on freedom of movement until that poor country gets up to standard...weather that takes 10,20 or 50 years....Yes give the poor countries grants ect - the rewards will come long term for us all.

 

Like it or not we are a global world now - We can't be a rich country without encouraging other countries to be rich too...otherwise we will end up with nobody to sell too.....just a small group of nations with enough money and resources to trade with each other....the system needs more countries to become rich/emerging or it will self implode.

 

You are right about "it's my vote" - I would never presume to try to TELL someone how to vote....But with regards to discrimination - That could happen to you or your family any time mate...you never know what's coming - I have been discriminated against in the very distant past because of the school i went to implied that I was of a certain religion (the implication was incorrect by the way but there you go...), More of a west of Scotland problem than down south to be fair but still you just never know and it is good to have a great big fooking stick to hit back at those knuckle draggers who think like that. By the way that discrimination did not effect my life one bit and turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the company who would only hire from a certain religious persuasion have gone bust...fook them and all who sail in them lol. Did you know that you could not even get a job in some councils in Scotland unless you were of a certain religious background....Everybody thought that shit was confined to Northern Ireland lol.....not a bit of it. But it is attitudes and thought processes LIKE that that drive me to feel the the EU has done some good for me and many others.

I would love the stay campaign to just focus on the what EU has done and will do for us rather than what a shit world it will be if we leave (I actually don't agree with that either lol)

[daz2905]

You make some good points there Diddy. I never realised about the level of discrimination encountered in Scotland as you mention, so i can completely understand the points you made in your first post. It just goes to show that there is a need to debate the issue.That's why i said in my first post in this thread that it would be interesting to have 2 polls, a before and after the debate poll. Just to see how opinions change.

There are a ton of issues that need looking at so when we do vote people can make an informed decision rather than one that is based on the few things that we think effect us. I've never felt animosity towards anyone who comes here to work because i know for instance if there was a better living to be made elsewhere and i was struggling to keep my head above water, i'd be on the next flight out of here. Also as i said earlier, we do need more workers paying into the system when we now have more people taking out in terms of pensions for people who are living longer and the NHS treatment that facilitates that .

At the moment i still with vote to leave but maybe i'll learn some interesting stuff when it gets properly debated. I doubt i'll change my mind but it's interesting to here other opinions and hopefully understand the possible pro and cons if we can see through the spinning lies they'll be hidden behind.