Will you bother voting in the EU referendum?

[ktv303]

I don't believe for one second the uk is not an independent country because it's in the EU. We signed up to abide by EU laws (must of which where created by the uk in the first place btw) then spit the dummy when it doesn't work in our Govs favour. There are more unelected people in our own system yet we bleat about another system that has less staff than some of our city council's when someone upholds one of the laws we actually created. The agruement we don't have control of our borders is also factually flawed.

Most of the leave sides arguments are based on inaccuracies of reality as far as I can see and tend to verge in Jonny foreigner ruining our country ukip style statements tbh. Tho as I've said before the remain side are.not much better tbh and I've also said there are many many flaws in the great capitalist regime that is the eu but our gov simply cannot be trusted to do what's in the majorities best interests.

Look at the argument again the min wage, billionaire companies can't afford it etc etc, a UK gov out if the eu could simply buckle to business pressure and remove it to the detriment of millions of people. That's just one example of many things that could change and for me that's just too risky.

 

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[goldringers]

Hang on , we on about an EU we joined over 40 years ago what was good in 1945 was useless in 1985. Times have changed, people have changed, spend 1/2 hr looking back at the 70's and it seems like an eternity away. When we joined are country was in a turmoil we needed a change, we needed a way out and lots thought the EU was the way. At first it was but were in an every changing society things are totally different so what was good 40 years ago is not what the UK need like a bad fruit slowly decaying under a tree. All the EU countries are sh*tting it if the UK sugar daddy pulls out the EU will collapse. As for EU law ?,If they say "Open your borders" we have to abide by EU law, did you not know that ?, that's what they call EU law we are governed by laws they dish out, read up you will see.

 

The threat from open borders and terrorism and not only that ,petty & violent criminal allowed to move freely cannot no be tolerated. 300,000 people every 3 years ?. , So please tell were do we put all the people ? in 10 years we will have added to the UK population a city the size of Birmingham, how do we house all these new arrivals?, when we can't build affordable housing and house those already here ?, how do we educated them ? classes on bursting point, hospitals, police,fire services been cut but expected to serve more and more plus the wages been driven down and down by cheap european labour. You say based on inaccurate ?, the last figures for incoming were 300,000 given by our Gov and in truth some say that's way low more like 500,000-600,000. It's a simple numbers game , as simple as that no capitalism arguments, it's more like the "How many people can you get in a telephone box or a mini ?", there's only so Many you can fit in.

 

We spend £60 million a year giving 50,000 kids child family allowance family tax credit kids who do not live in the UK. 30,000 are from Poland, total of over 55 million a year while were told , "Sorry your A&E has to close, please travel "X" miles to your nearest , bye" I would like to see how many UK residents in these countries claim ?.

 

So again, how many Brits (bar the bright orange/blue rinse pensioner crew heading for Spain) actually head to those countries who have the highest rate of people coming to the UK ? your Romania's and Poland's ? 10-15-20 ??. Would you swap your nice comfy car and bottle of perrier to get to work for a donkey and cart and a goat skin bottle ?. It's about freedom of movement but in our case 1 way movement like a bowel movement, lots coming in , very few leaving. The only people who give a shit and want in is those who employ cheap labour picking fookin veg. And now that fat dwarf running Germany sticks her beak in. Do they not know were a nation who doesn't like been dictated to especially by a country like Germany. This is gonna backfire badly and Cameron will be collecting his P45 soon.

 

I will give you an example because it doesn't seem like you have been near an area affected when a large community is taken over by people from an EU country (in this case Romania). I lived on a large council estate for 15 years. At the start one family moved in things were fine I use to smile when passing no problems. Then another and another family moved in. till there was 5 houses all with yards full with at least 10 occupants in each. Then all the petty crime started, garden sheds, lead off porches, car crime. then the late night drinking , shit and bins thrown over other peoples fences. Complaints went in daily to the council who basically said their hands were tide.

Now that street houses 15 families and people who have lived there for years are basically been harassed to the point were they move and yes,,,,you got it , more moved in. That street is a no go street now , if you say anything there will be fook all left of your car or paint daubed. I remember before they came there was crime but not a ghetto. Their kids go to our local school and their budget has been stretched to accommodate them and extra tuition with more teachers been brought in.

 

When you see it at first hand you will understand why I feel so strong. It's nothing to do with the powers be , looking after each other , piss in the same pot, I just want us to be in control of who and when we let people into our country this will lead to the numbers been lowered and 350 million pound been spent on us by us. If businesses can't negotiate with the people they've done business with for the past 40 years then they deserve to go bust. They seem to be able to negotiate with non EU countries fine. We talk as if we only do business with EU countires, load of crap. We are the strongest nation in the EU bollox to Germany and for that fat little tranny to tell us what's right or wrong ? well , say no more.

 

Some bint of an MP from Wales on question time last night said "I vote for in, last year we got 245 million in grants so for that reason IN !"

 

Someone should have pointed out that £245 million is our own money and thats the equivalent of 5 days of money we send to the EU.

When we leave the EU because we will, lets still pay 50 million a day and for 1 week lets call it "Wales Week" and be done

[Diddy]

Is everyone who disagrees with YOUR view a "bint" or whatever Goldringers ? Here is an even better question and im serious - How will you feel if the vote goes against you ? Will you get over it or will you cry foul ? Will you just embark on the referendum merry go round.....There are some who believe that no matter the outcome the "other side" will cry foul and demand a recount and eventually a re-vote.....This shit is costing US billions that we just don't have. All it is really is a leadership campaign for the Tory party....They should have just had an internal vote with a but of pig's head shagging thrown in and they would probably end up in the same place....

Vote IN to remind the rest of the world that most British people are inclusive and outwardly friendly and are ready and willing to do business and trade as long as you treat your workers properly.

[daz2905]

Earlier in the campaign the out camp said that a vote out would probably lead to Europe coming back to the table and submitting a new offer in respect of the concessions we asked for and were refused, followed by another referendum. I'm thinking that this is the most likely outcome of Brexit being succesful. Even if we stayed out i doubt we'll be saving much money in respect of what we'll have to pay in to get trade deals. Although we will get a say in the laws we pass, trade deals with non eu members and immigration policies.

I feel a bit more positive about the out vote in the last few days, The vote to leave has closed the gap in the polls, in some cases overtaken the stay vote. It will be a close one by the looks of it.

[Fon]

Keep it civil guys, this is meant to be a freindly place!

 

Fon

[Snuffs99]

Vote IN to remind the rest of the world that most British people are inclusive and outwardly friendly and are ready and willing to do business and trade as long as you treat your workers properly.

 

Well tbf china, UAE etc are all great advocates for workers rights, PMSL. IN or OUT we will be fine and nothing will happen for along time should we choose to leave, the £300+million we send the EU each week will be probably be used for new trade deals etc i'd have thought, might not be the whole amount we currently send the EU but we wont get to keep the lot and simply send it on the NHS for instance.

 

I think both the in and out camps have fooked this vote for anyoen who really had no clue on how they would vote and made it all about scare tactics and BS, not one side has really given many positives for their arguments and its a shame it cannot be debated properly with real and honest facts etc.

 

I've said all i can tbh, i've given my views on the matter as best as i can and will accept the result, i may not respect the result if it doesn't go my way but i will accept it and move on.

 

 

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Snuffs

[ktv303]

shit is costing US billions that we just don't have. All it is really is a leadership campaign for the Tory party....They should have just had an internal vote with a but of pig's head shagging thrown in and they would probably end up in the same place....

Vote IN to remind the rest of the world that most British people are inclusive and outwardly friendly and are ready and willing to do business and trade as long as you treat your workers properly.

This.

 

 

 

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[Rusty]

The threat from open borders

We're the only member of the EU with closed borders.

[ktv303]

John major says the Tories can't be trusted after a leave vote ffs. If the rightest of right wing see the orchestrated collapse then surely the we want control side can too.

 

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[ktv303]

Commenting on a speech at the Institute of Directors by pro-Brexit MP Priti Patel, in which she argued that leaving the EU would be an opportunity to cut EU social and employment protections, TUC General Secretary Frances O’Grady said:

“Leave the EU and lose your rights at work – that’s the message that even Leave campaigners like Priti Patel are now giving.

“But which rights would go – your right to paid holidays, your right to parental leave, maybe protections for pregnant workers?

“The EU guarantees all these rights and more, and it’s why Brexit is such a big risk for working people.”

In her speech, Ms Patel said: “If we could just halve the burdens of the EU social and employment legislation we could deliver a £4.3 billion boost to our economy and 60,000 new jobs.”

The TUC does not accept her claim on jobs and the economic boost of reducing these EU-derived rules, but notes her overtly hostile agenda towards workers’ rights.

The TUC commissioned an independent legal opinion from Michael Ford QC on the consequences of Brexit for UK employment law and workers’ rights. A full copy can be found at www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/Brexit%20Legal%20Opinion.pdf

[hoponbaby]

Couldn't be bothered reading all of that as it's rendered pointless by 1 word in the opening paragraph.

 

"potentially"

 

It's all hypothetical, nobody knows what, if anything, will change. Bear in mind there are areas of UK employment rights - minimum/living wage for one which the Gov have trumpeted which is nothing to do with the EU.

[Scorpion]

A change is as good as rest then

[ktv303]

Her statement simply shows their intentions in the event of a leave vote.

 

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[goldringers]

We spend over £20million a year in London alone tackling the homeless, sleeping on the streets problem,

 

10 million of that could be saved as 1/2 of those come from central and eastern european countries, it has doubled to over 7500 over the past 12 months mainly due to the influx of eastern and central europeans arriving into the UK with no job, no home, and full access to our benefit and help agencies. It is thought it could rise to over 10,000 by the end of 2016.

 

Overall, the OBR has estimated that Britain will pay £96.5 billion to Brussels over the next five years, equivalent to £371 million per week – more than enough to plug the funding gap in the NHS and cover agricultural subsidies and regional grant payments currently paid out by the EU.

 

And that figure doesn’t take into account indirect payments, such as the environmental levies insisted upon by EU legislation which are set to nearly triple from £5.9 billion in 2015/16 to £13.4 billion by 2020/21.

 

 

Vote STAY and lets carry on giving hey .. . . . ffs

[ktv303]

85% of immigrants from the EU are in employment....thats a higher figure than brits....and remember we are not a member of the free movement agreement so the gov could halt any influx when ever they desired.

 

would the funding gap in the nhs be covered if we saved all that money or would there just be more tax breaks for the rich?...

 

if the gov wanted to get rid of the funding gap in the nhs or the dwp etc the estimated tax bill for vodaphone alone would cover it for 2 years so are you willing to bet on what a tory gov hell bent on privitising the NHS would do with any "saved" money?

 

or we could leave our biggest market and just keep blaming jonny foriegner for our own govs greed and mismanagement.

 

heres another one for the collection mate 

[Snuffs99]

 

or we could leave our biggest market and just keep blaming jonny foriegner for our own govs greed and mismanagement.

 

 

A good part of our import and export market is actually outside the EU....USA, China, Switzerland to name a few and switzerland is outside the Eu but has free trade etc etc, no reason why we cant still trade and prosper, none at all, Switzerland proves that point quite well.

 

However if like you say (i agree btw) we have to blame the gov for its greed and mismanagement and the very same government wants us in the EU then going off that we should get out,, or we are simply following exactly what the greedy and mismanaged government wants, no?.....Blame the government but follow them and stay in the EU just like the government wants, ironic?.

 

 

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Snuffs

[ktv303]

will we get the swiss deal?....a real answer in required not a could or should.

btw the free trade deal with Swiss consists of them agreeing to Free movement of people (Schengen membership) Security and asylum amoungst many many other conditions, conditions the UK leave side are using as an excuse to leave the EU, farming etc AND its on the basis that they will eventually join. (they applied in 92)

 

are you willing to risk 55% of our exports due to higher import tax for eu countries if we dont get a BETTER deal than the Swiss?. (cause itl be minus the schengen etc)

 

im no fan of the EU as ive said but im even less of a fan of our greedy gov so i think we need the EU to keep them in check.

half the gov want out of the EU for the reasons re employment law etc that ive already given and you want to leave as well so will you just "hope" they dont fuck us over when theres nothing to stop them?

 

too risky in my eyes and simply driven by millionare greed and main stream medias xenophobia. (usually one in the same mind)

[goldringers]

 

85% of immigrants from the EU are in employment....thats a higher figure than brits....and remember we are not a member of the free movement agreement so the gov could halt any influx when ever they desired.

 

You are wrong, we are not governed on this by the UK but by Brussels we have on powers unless we ask nicely . We can say "WE'LL CLOSE THE GATES" but we can TOLD "NOPE YOU CAN'T, HERE'S A FEW MORE" by the Brussels supreme court.

 

And how many are not working here working here illegally ? and when the jobs run out and more and more come forcing the min wage down what do we do ?

 

Better get your spare room ready I'll send em yours m8 : you look willing enough to take a few in

[ktv303]

 

85% of immigrants from the EU are in employment....thats a higher figure than brits....and remember we are not a member of the free movement agreement so the gov could halt any influx when ever they desired.

 

You are wrong, we are not governed on this by the UK but by Brussels we have on powers unless we ask nicely . We can say "WE'LL CLOSE THE GATES" but we can TOLD "NOPE YOU CAN'T, HERE'S A FEW MORE" by the Brussels supreme court.

 

And how many are not working here working here illegally ? and when the jobs run out and more and more come forcing the min wage down what do we do ?

 

Better get your spare room ready I'll send em yours m8 : you look willing enough to take a few in

 

there is no basis for what your saying mate.

 

some facts are:

the EU supreme court isnt in brussels.

eu immigrants dont need permission to work.

you cant force down a minimum.

we're not part of the open borders agreement.

[daz2905]

Sometimes it seems obvious when the other person has made there mind up and no amount of arguing will change it. This seems one of those occasions.

[Snuffs99]

Sometimes it seems obvious when the other person has made there mind up and no amount of arguing will change it. This seems one of those occasions.

 

Hehe, your right in a way mate but shouldn't stop the "banter" and tbf thanks to this debate etc some things that have been said by the remain camp i've either agreed with or have delved further into it to form a better idea and form my own opnions based on the info i've found etc..Granted its not enough to change my mind overall but either way the whole thing has made me look, listen and learn far more than i probably would have without the debate etc.

So all good and other than the odd luke warm moment its been a tame thread and people have kept their cool well i think, on both sides.

 

 

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Snuffs

[jakdos]

What I wonder is, how is closer eu integration that will inevitably come, different from the ussr? At least that fell in the end as I am sure the Eu will - hopefully

 

 

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