Will you bother voting in the EU referendum?

[Snuffs99]

yes we do get to vote in the GE every X amount of years but in general we are just voting to see who is going to stuff us in the most imaginative ways.

 

Unless you vote to stay IN of course..... then your simply voting for unelected muppets to screw us over instead.

 

Each to their own i suppose and i won't blame anyone who does vote to stay, after all its what most know and better the devil you know will be most peoples attitudes.

 

US of Europe here we come.....yay.

 

 

Re:

 

Snuffs

[ktv303]

 

sent from my phone

[Snuffs99]

Its as if those who want to stay think if we did leave we would crumble overnight and be a waste land, we have ruled most of the world at one point or another and many people think we are doomed if we leave the EU....however did we manage before the Eu came along..er we managed very well.

 

Workers rights would not vanish, they are pretty much part of our own laws and what not and part of the fabric of our working lives. Min wage, unlawful deduction of pay and unfair dismissal to name a few are all UK laws. Equal pay and race discrimination laws are all part of UK laws way before we even joined the EU so have fook all to do with the EU....they wont vanish ffs....in fact if we voted to leave its doubtful much would happen at all for a few years etc.

 

EU has had 40 years to work and it doesn't and never will....too many cooks and lack of understanding IMHO.

 

Like i've said before, many will vote to stay out of fear. Stories like the one above are a prime example of such scare tactics full of mis-information.

[ktv303]

every one who has appealed to the Eu because of a UK govs decision in the past for what ever the reason wouldn't have been able to appeal if we weren't in the EU. that's not scaremongering..that's fact.

The laws mentioned above where ONLY brought in to comply with eu legislation and without that legislation forcing them to comply there's nothing to stop min wage laws etc being simply removed. That's also a fact.

As the women on question time said the other night, regardless of your thoughts on Europe our business elitist loving gov simply cannot be trusted not to Fuck us over at every turn.

 

sent from my phone

[Snuffs99]

As the women on question time said the other night, regardless of your thoughts on Europe our business elitist loving gov simply cannot be trusted not to Fuck us over at every turn.

 

sent from my phone

 

 

Your quite right hence why the government is wanting to stay in the EU.

 

As for the laws i mentioned being introduced to comply with EU rules etc.....again equal pay and race discrimination were but a few that were around way before the EU.

 

And yes had we been out of the EU those who have appealed to the EU courts including the rapists, murderers, illegal immigrants etc etc would not have had an appeal, just another case of EU law over shadowing our own.....also a fact.

 

We will have to agree to disagree mate, everything thats posted regarding staying is scare mongering or complete bull IMHO, and nothing is going to change my mind on voting out...also a fact.

 

 

 

Re:

 

Snuffs

[ktv303]

I'm not trying to convince anyone mate just putting an alter point of view to the hysterical victim cards of the leave side.

I'm not so sure "the gov" are wanting us to remain either.

 

sent from my phone

[Snuffs99]

I'm not trying to convince anyone mate just putting an alter point of view to the hysterical victim cards of the leave side.

I'm not so sure "the gov" are wanting us to remain either.

 

Not saying your trying to convince me mate, i was just saying my mind wont be changed.

 

I do agree the leave side are shambolic though and should stop the victim cards just as much as the stay team should stop the scare cards.

 

The gov do want us to stay IMHO, you've got the PM and chancellor etc, we have Boris and the likes of Farage....telling me that giving us bumbling Boris isn't some under handed way of making sure we lose.

[Vixen]

Out for me

[ktv303]

 

further proof for the REAL reason the leave side want out. 

 

how dare they force us to pay new mothers eh 

[daz2905]

 

further proof for the REAL reason the leave side want out. 

 

how dare they force us to pay new mothers eh 

 

Not all businesses have multi million pound slush funds.

[ktv303]

 

further proof for the REAL reason the leave side want out. 

 

how dare they force us to pay new mothers eh 

 

Not all businesses have multi million pound slush funds.

 

so if you fall pregnant you can just fekk off with no pay then?

 

you cant make excuses for the inexcusable mate, its not the 1930s lol

 

and small companies can actually claim back 103% of maternity payments so its win win for all.

[daz2905]

No, that wouldn't be ok. That's why they currently receive maternity pay. But for a lot of smaller businesses, they have to look at the new living wage coming in and also this.

When this new minimum wage gets introduced, all that will happen is that every basic expense will rise. They give you something in one hand and then snatch it out of the other.

I'm not saying that that either is wrong, just that when you're running a business the margins are often small and the implication of something that seems fair and just is sometimes the difference between profit and loss. Currently i work for myself and no longer employ staff. Years ago i employed 4 people and it was nothing but 4 times the hassle for about 50% more pay. I speak to friends who employ people and now it's all hassle with new minimum wages, pensions,ni,tax, holiday and VAT, you go through all this and then another recession comes and you could be bankrupt. If i were running a small business employing staff, i hate to admit it but a recently married female in her 20's would not be part of my recruitment plans.

[ktv303]

the cost of maternity leave is covered for small bussness by the gov plus a wee bit extra for the hassle.

if your going to run a company you have to follow legislation, ie the rules.

so why should you have to pay someone a wage they can live on when you can vote out and force people to work for less than they can live on with no holiday pay or pensions?....

thats basically the business argument as i said.

 

i understand running a company enduces a mind blowing amount of red tape etc but i dont think leaving the EU so its easier for you to fuck over or discriminate against people is the answer.

and thats why even though the EU has a million and one problems im still IN.

 

(you doesnt mean "you" personally btw)

[daz2905]

TBH i think at least short term i'll be a lot worse off if we leave the EU. What i said above was just to present a different interpretation of what was said.

I'm voting out because i'm more concerned about what the EU will become more than what it is now. I already knew how i would vote when the referendum was announced before the election and the way the government have tried to manipulate every department and sector to leak scare stories of how every single thing will cost more or be diminished by leaving the EU has left me feeling pretty insulted that they think we are so stupid.

Politics is power and with the EU exit they lose some of the power they crave. If we leave the EU we become this small independent country with depleted military power but we are able to offer greater incentives for investment in our country. In 10 years time we would look back and realise that far from breaking us, it made us. I hate to think of the alternative but i realise it will quite likely go against my vote. We are like a magnate for poorer EU states. Not all immigration is bad, some come here and work hard and settle here. IMHO they are welcome. Some come here, work and send all the money home and that's not so good. Others come here, claim benefits, work in the black economy or commit crime, we don't need them. My biggest concern with immigration is the future EU member states, such as Turkey. FFS NO, just no.

Immigration is my main concern but EU Laws, different pension and health benefits and different stealth policies and unfair EU payouts are pretty high on my list too. I could go on and on but then this post would be nothing more than a very long essay/rant.

[ktv303]

fair enough mate even though i disagree i see where your coming from.

 

i would say though the the immigration argument is a total misnomer in the in/out debate. we are not part of the schengen agreement so out borders are totally our resposibility and no one elses, who we let in or not is totally up to us.

[Diddy]

My take on the immigration issues are the EU referendum is just one big bloody red herring. There will STILL be immigration (The government of the day will just announce "we need such and such"" and that will be that. I think this referendum targets people who's livelihood has or may be affected by this immigration at current levels....

Now im a spar...most of you know so I AM seeing my rate per hour not drop so much but not increase as it has done historically. The "good old days" of late 80's early 90's building boom...new labour low tax's big cash for sparks at the time thanks to the conservatives killing off apprenticeships....It was all a big cash bonanza for us who were decently placed to take advantage....Come labour open the doors and we have the "polish spark" willing to work for 50p per hour and a packet of crisps....you get the drift. But here is the rub once the polish spark talks to a brit and the brit puts him right about the real tradesman rates for the area...the polish man puts his prices up and we are all happy again....just that there are more of us so we can't demand the increases that we could when there was a shortage of skilled workers.

Now that situation has replicated itself all throughout our economy. BUT if we all agree that big business and even bigger corporations actually DO have more say in the running of almost any country then WHO do you think immigration is good for ?

Look at those at the head of BOTH the in and out camps - These are guys with links to big businesses....Businesses WANT immigration, People DEMAND low prices but happily bugger off into primark in the full knowledge that the garment you buy comes from a place where the person making it will work 15 hours a day for about 30p......Coupled with their (primark in this example) propensity for zero hours contracts - minimum wage = maximum wage.....something's wrong lol

But again im veering - Listen to both camps - After the vote no matter who "wins" there will still be immigration and it will still hit houses, job's, pay rates, schools, hospitals ect ect ect.....Do you know the ONLY people who can change that ? US !! We need to push our government to build the infrastructure to cope with the demand...We are "reaping" the tax's from these workers are we not ? Build more infrastructure, Creates more employment, Get youngsters out of school into the building sites - 5 years apprenticeships ect ect. Train our own doctors and nurses and teachers instead of relying on other countries....But just remember no matter what we will always have immigration and imho it will always be mixed between low skilled and skilled, I don't believe for one min that those at the top come brexit will not want to keep the ordinary guys wages low.....they have just hijacked an emotion imho.

[goldringers]

You want the Gov to build and spend more and more to cope with more coming in ?. That's like spending the cash on building a sand castle wall then blow up a river dam. that makes no sense what so ever bordering on insanity . And as for Pols putting thier price up ?, lol pmsl. I know a few who's families live in Poland. They work here , pay fook all into the system, send the money home evey month they fly home for a weeks hols. And those who do get family allowance for their kids in Poland and Romania.

 

 

 

I want my country to stand up proud , I want to vote and that vote mean something. When I vote I do not vote for the EU to make the rules...

 

Diddy ?, try going ot Poland Romania etc. . . and see what you get , you'll be lucky to get paracetamol , they head here because it's all on a plate.

[hoponbaby]

Maternity pay is covered by the gov for small businesses but the associated hassle isn't - time off for prenatal appointments, keeping the job open whilst on maternity leave with no idea if they plan to return, having to consider flexible working, emergency time of for dependents etc etc. Whilst you aren't legally allowed to take any of that in to account while interviewing any small business owner that says they don't is lying!!

 

Schengen or not any citizen of the EU is allowed to come here, that is only going to worsen with Turkey, Bosnia, Albania, Serbia and so on.

[ktv303]

 

 

Schengen or not any citizen of the EU is allowed to come here, 

 

theyre only allowed in at the mo because we LET them in. we arent forced to by the EU as some would have you believe as we didnt sign up to the open borders policy within the EU ie schengen.

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I want my country to stand up proud , I want to vote and that vote mean something. When I vote I do not vote for the EU to make the rules...

 

 

 

dont take this the wrong way as im not having a dig but its not YOUR country and if you want YOUR vote to actually mean something then westminster is the place to complain to as the EU has bugger all to do with that.

[goldringers]

Really ktv303?, get ya specs on fella ,

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456

 

quote:-

the argument for leaving the EU

 

 

Leaving the EU would restore parliamentary sovereignty, returning power from Brussels to Westminster so that the decisions that affect our lives are made by politicians who we can hold to account by kicking them out at a general election.

[ktv303]

Really ktv303?, get ya specs on fella ,

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456

 

quote:-

the argument for leaving the EU

 

 

Leaving the EU would restore parliamentary sovereignty, returning power from Brussels to Westminster so that the decisions that affect our lives are made by politicians who we can hold to account by kicking them out at a general election.

 

pmsl. well thats one way of picking one sentence out of some lit.

 

i suppose the out side are using many many twisted arguements like that....so theyre saying we are no longer a sovereign state now ffs lol

 

we persistantly elect parties who have membership of the EU as one of their main policies then greet and moan that we dont get to pick who makes decisions for us. pmsl

[Snuffs99]

we persistantly elect parties who have membership of the EU as one of their main policies then greet and moan that we dont get to pick who makes decisions for us. pmsl

 

One could argue the Tories won because they were the only party in the last election to state they would have a referendum on the EU.

 

Slightly off topic i know but many of the arguments used by the stay side could just as easily be used to argue for Scotland staying in the UK yet your quick to dismiss the very same arguments then....you think we moan when unelected people are in power because we chose to elect a party that has the EU as one of their policies? yet when it comes to Scotland and the UK again you think Scotland should leave because west minster has a say over how Scotland is run etc etc....very hypocritical of you tbh mate, happy to leave the UK because you don't want the unelected to rule Scotland yet you want to stay in the EU so the unelected can rule Scotland....go figure. Either you want a free and independent Scotland or you don't, from your arguments it seems you have no clue what it is you want tbh..

[ktv303]

Haha I was waiting on that to be honest mate as it's the exact same inaccurate hyperbole we got hit with a million times during the Indy referendum.

Who are these unelected people we keep hearing about? The judges is the usual excuse... Something something terrorists and immigrants is usually the next response? They're no more unelected than our judges.. They're no more unelected than the house of lords or Westminster mps as far as the Scots are concerned.

I want an Indy Scotland within the eu. It's not rocket science mate and the very same argument could be used for the uk wanting too stay in nato or the U.N.

 

sent from my phone

[Snuffs99]

Haha I was waiting on that to be honest mate as it's the exact same inaccurate hyperbole we got hit with a million times during the Indy referendum.

Who are these unelected people we keep hearing about? The judges is the usual excuse... Something something terrorists and immigrants is usually the next response? They're no more unelected than our judges.. They're no more unelected than the house of lords or Westminster mps as far as the Scots are concerned.

I want an Indy Scotland within the eu. It's not rocket science mate and the very same argument could be used for the uk wanting too stay in nato or the U.N.

 

sent from my phone

 

Nothing inaccurate about what i've said from what i can tell..... you've even bothered to contradict yourself and make my hyperbole more accurate tbh.

 

i want an Indi Scotland within the EU. Its not rocket science mate

 

Your quite right it isn't rocket science. Your either independent or your not, you can't be independent if your part of the EU, hence why i'm voting out. And you can't use the same arguments for leaving the UK then defend those very same arguments when they are used by the Brexit campaign...all contradiction.

 

Now don't get me wrong i totally agree many of the shite the Brexit camp comes out with is total BS, but on the other hand so is most of the BS the stay campaign come out with. For me though i don't want to be part of a united states of Europe. Look at our defence and our overall power in the world, its slowly vanished since being part of the EU. For all our "voice" within the EU we have achieved very little really in 40 years other than segregation and division in our own towns and cities due to free movements, we can't deport criminals without EU judges saying so etc etc. I've said it before, my feelings on the EU are probably as strong as yours regarding Scotlands indi vote etc.

 

As for NATO and the UN...totally different to the EU IMHO and no reason at all why we can't be an independent country and be part of both as we were pre-EU, we would be just like the USA etc are now without the BS from the EU on the side lines.

 

Don't knwo tbh, i can see arguemtns for and against but OUT wins me over i'm afraid.

[goldringers]

It's not a twisted argument ktv its a fact..if we leave the EU we take control of the UK and we can get on fookin the UK up on our own... there's no argument to be had thats unless you can dream one up.