That london fire!

[Fon]

My god, just terrible!

 

People told to stay in their flats etc!

 

Bloke at work is an X fire chief. He said that the individual flats should not spread fire from one to the other, but what with it being a hot night, people probably had windows open etc, which help it spread. 

 

Iv never seen anything like that before

 

Fon

[Snuffs99]

From what i've read its the cladding they put on the outside which wasn't up to scratch?....And tbf you only have to look at the clips and pics etc online to see the panels are ALL on fire.......either way it should not have gone up the way it did and if i was in a high rise which was recently renovated with that sort of claddin i'd be worried (few round my way (least 4 i can think of) been done in the last couple of yeara).

 

 

Someone cut corners on cheap non fire resistant outer insulation is what i'm getting from all this.....no doubt it'll be brushed under some carpet.

 

RIp to all those who have died because of it and lets hope those responsible get whats coming their way.

[dopeydog]

12 dead upto now but they say it will sadly rise as the rescue services go higher up the block....another sad sad day in the UK.

[goldringers]

Were I live they have clad the outside of 4 major blocks with foam insulation panels then rendered over the top, that was a few years ago. Most of the render is coming away and there back up with the scaffold doing major repairs due to damp/condensation problem. I always said , "I hope that foam is fire retardant". To think that both the plastic or the foam or both weren't is one major fcuk up in at the London tower block. There are bollards all round which stopped fire engines getting near. A simple key lock bollard fold down is the answer there. And gas in a Tower block ?, I thought that was banned ?. People said the gas pipes were up the stairwell and fully exposed , no fire protection over them. Then there's 24 floors and only one stairwell ?, the list goes on and on.

 

Their already passing the buck, the building company with the contract said the cladding was subbed out. The sub contractor said, they didn't make it they just put it up. I'd like bet it was bought in from somewhere like Asia. For me, tragic accidents take place because of cutbacks, cutting corners basically on the cheap and people in powers that be having the "Na, we know best so fcuk off !". The ex head of the tenants association spoke out and said it all fell on deaf ears, 90% petition raising safety concerns simply ignored by the Council. He even got a home visit by a sub contractor boos to his home and was threatened.

 

I feel so sorry and my heart goes out to all those who perished and to those families who have lost loved ones plus the badly injured it what is a fully preventable accident, I hope those above get fcukin charged with murder

[daz2905]

With every story that comes out about this the more unbelievable it seems.

Flammable cladding.

No fire procedure advice to residence.

No fire extinguishers for resident use or ways to extinguish fire.

Owner of flat where fire started, packs his belongings before telling neighbours about fire.

 

It just gets worse and worse. What a horrible way to die. Stuck on the upper floors with smoke pouring up the fire escape and no way of getting out.

I feel for anyone who witnessed it first hand and for the fire brigade and other services who now have to go in and recover the bodies. Shocking really that this happens in 21st century Britain.

[ktv303]

Truly shocking indeed. I lived in a high rise for years (my boy still does sometimes) and never imagined anything like that could happen.

 

Not surprised It never fell down after nearly 24 hours on fire tho.

Cause building just don't do that.

[ktv303]

Watching the meeting about the London fire. No wonder fuck all ever gets done in this country, fucktard after fucktard standing saying nothing of any worth at all. These sponging clowns just like the sound of their own voice. Fuckin sack the lot of them.

[2tone]

I find this all very strange that in this day and age there has not been a fire test carried out not only in that building but all council buildings every week, then every month a fire evacuation drill carried out. The only reason I'm saying this is because the company I work for carrier out these test for one of the major housing association, these test results are then logged in a fire book on site for the fire officer to check there then emailed on to said housing association and be leave me if some thing is not logged there is all hell, Now I know it would not have stopped that fire but it would show if people where doing there jobs.

 

As for the building works being involved with the building industry I cant under stand why you would use a none fire retardant materiel to surround a building in this day and age, did they think that if the fire was out side it could not make its way in to the building lot of wank, in affect they created a flue on that building fire made its way out of the flat up the out side of the building and back in again unbelievable really.

[goldringers]

Yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if it went up it will act like a barbecue fire starter. The fire service hands are tied, they follow guide lines laid down by this government. It's simple, if there was no cladding it would not have spread at the speed it did therefore trapping all those in the upper floors.

 

My biggest problem with it all is that something that's attached to a building is highly flammable, whoever picked chose this and whoever allowed it to be used is the person who needs to go down and throw away the key. It should have simply tested as we do with sofa's and beds and fire doors. if it smoldered and went out the vast majority of lives would have been saved. There are hundreds of tall tower block fires every year but none take hold this has.

No cladding = no deaths

[Snuffs99]

Its all about greed on the highest level....way back in 1999 the government was warned about this exact scenario and they did nothing except line the pockets of their rich friends.

 

A report in 1999 by the Environment, Transport and the Regions select committee said: 'We do not believe that it should take a serious fire in which many are killed before all reasonable steps are taken towards minimising the risks.'

The MPs highlighted concerns that the small air cavity between the layers of cladding can act as a chimney, helping the fire spread rapidly upwards. Their report demanded that 'all external cladding systems should be required either to be entirely non-combustible, or to be proved through full-scale testing not to pose an unacceptable level of risk in terms of fire spread'.

 

And then on top of that they have used flammable materials, which they knew were flammable.

 

Design specifications suggests Grenfell Tower had 150mm (6in) of Celotex RS5000 insulation and overcladding made from ACM – aluminium composite material – with a 50mm (2in) 'ventilated cavity' in between.

Grenfell Tower was clad last year as part of an £8.6million refurbishment by East Sussex-based builders Rydon, which said yesterday that its work 'met all required building controls'.

Yet the company admits on its website that the insulation material used, Celotex RS5000, 'will burn if exposed to a fire of sufficient heat and intensity… [and] toxic gases will be released with combustion'.

ACM is also potentially highly flammable and rescuers yesterday faced the hazard of blazing metal panels raining down on them as they tried to enter the building

 

But its ok as the work complied with regulations??

 

Says it all and i can't see anyone going to prison for this, even after the same thing happened in Camberwell in 2009 nothing was done.

 

It continued to be used even after the 2009 fire at the 14-storey Lakanal House in Camberwell, South East London, which killed six people.

 

15 min is all it took to go from 4th to top.

 

Sad days for all those involved but as i say i doubt anyone will be arrested etc.

[ktv303]

Nothing will change while Loads of mps earn millions from letting out houses and voting against laws to make them legally inhabitable.

 

The gov in the uk no matter if it's Labour or tory is by the rich for the rich and time and time again it's the people who suffer as a consequence.

Just look at even council level where they close after school care, libraries etc while spewing millions on tourism and glamification of areas

[2tone]

Your absolutely right was on a course a couple of weeks back and the guy taking it was an x fire fighter but he was also a member of a group that helps bring new health and safety laws in, he was telling us that governments knew about the damages of asbestos years a go and I'm talking about well before it even got banned. What the problem was major building suppliers had or said they had loads of stock of it so they needed to use it all as they where going to be out lots of money unfortunately this went on for years before they could ban the use of it just go's to show you money is more important that people.

[goldringers]

This will get totally out of hand, the people they should be targeting are the contractors and whoever gave the nod from the Council to go ahead and install cheap highly flammable cladding. They installed non fireproof cladding to save a few quid per metre. What gets me is , this scruffy tvvat Corbyn, he went to talk to the victims and people living in the area people kinda letting people know that this wouldn't happen under a Labour Gov, well I'm sorry it would have happened no matter who was in power . May didn't go chatting to the people as securityas she was warned the situation was volatile. Some bellend said "Why didn't she just come and talk to us without all the bodyguards and the Police and walk around ?" ....really ?. She wouldn't walk round a flower show without them, she's the pm.

Yes you can blame the highest in power for all the cutbacks and Councils asked to save billions but at the end of the day, cutback decisions as to were money is saved is made at Council borough level. Someone made the decision at Council level to save money on the cladding and for me those people should be the one's held countable. Contractors and the Council Hierarchy who gave the final nod without testing the cladding should be investigated right now and dragged to court. Between them they both decided to use the cladding rather than a fireproof more expensive version.

 

I am not sticking up for anyone, this was a fully preventable a modern day tragedy and a loss of innocent lives could have been prevented by simply spending more money on the cladding. One thing that I couldn't understand was , gas in a 24 storey block ? wtf ? I lived in a tower block for 3 years 20 odd years ago and gas was a def no no and still is today in the same blocks. And to install it straight up the stairwell with no fire protection on the pipes ?, it beggars belief. The councillers and contractors need to be arrested, the contractors will say "We did as instructed and we subbed the work out" but if you are installing unsafe cladding and you knew then you don't do the work

[ktv303]

You can't blame people for blaming the tories, they constantly voted against making laws that would prevent this kind of thing happening, it happened under they're watch and under a tory council that have ignored constant complaints about the block. One of the wealthiest boroughs in the country yet 36% of kids live in poverty and they still suffer constant cuts while the council spend millions on making the place look pretty for the mansion house owners.

It signifies everything that is wrong with right wing tory ethics.

May is a total robot, her excuse for not meeting the people was blown out the water when wee queenie walked amongst them.

May refused to meet the public during the election too cause she knows she'd be quickly found out to be not fit for purpose.

She's a coward who has nothing in common with 99% of the people in this country.

[goldringers]

Do you think Labour wouldn't have cutbacks ?, what I'm saying is, there's ways, means and places to cutback like all the fookin forgien aid sent to some of the richest countries in the world. But there's one thing you can't cutback on is major safety issues like this. The Councils are given funds and its them who decide how to spend their money accordingly. Someone or a few sat there and looked at the cost and said "Nope, go for the cheaper option it will save us £xx.xx.

I saw another Council somewhere in the country who had cladding put on there tower blocks but the opted for the fire retardant cladding at an extra cost. They chose the correct option. You can't blame the Tories as the sole reason because if Labour were in charge we'd be spending like there's no tomorrow and another party would pick up the pieces in years to come.

 

What I'm saying is, hang the correct people for the tragedy, those who picked the cladding to save money, those who installed for not raising an alarm as they must have known and those who installed all those non removable bollards that stopped fire engines getting near the block. You can blame May but if the Council were given say another 500 million to spend would they spend the extra on fireproof cladding ?,

 

 

I think not because they would still opt for the cheaper option to gain Council brownie points in the "How can we save money" club. Someone fooked up and they must be sat there with thier heads in their hands thinking why did we do that

[ktv303]

I get what you're saying and agree with you mate but the bottom line is the only reason this block and not any others where clad in the first place was because it was unsightly to the wealthy in the area. Yes council heads should roll but inherent social cleansing and gentrification in the area is the root cause. And that's down entirely too right wing greed and capitalism.

 

Glasgow council is no better and I'd imagine most other councils are the same, the magic fuckin money tree appears when a middle class area needs a lick of paint or a park done up while there's no money for schools, libraries etc etc.

The whole system is fucked and yet again it's the poorest who take the brunt if it.

 

We'll probably never find out who's really made the fateful decision as the whitewash has already started.

[Scorpion]

When you look at just how many tory MP''s are landlord themselves , you can understand in some part, why they haven't shown any interest in such safety laws.

[Snuffs99]

Does take the piss tbh, Salix who did the high rise flat renovations around my area have give a statement in the MEN saying people should not worry as all their work complies with government regs etc......Errrr they said the same about grenfell and thats just gone up like a roman candle?

 

Grenfell was meant to have fire proof cladding but as per norm the powers chose to use cheaper ones to save £6K.......whoever signed off on that from both the contractors end and the councils should be sent down IMHO, THEY are the ones to blame.

[daz2905]

It's awful what happened but to actually blame another hunan being who had absolutely no involvement with this is just shocking.

I don't mean on this forum, i mean the media and the liberal London twats who are trying to turn her into a scapegoat. After the election i thought she should go but after this i think it's important that she stays. We have a certain type of person in this country that wants to have another election/referendum when the result doesn't go their way and think the country should change to suit their personal beliefs and are quite happy to join up with like minded twats to try and bully opinion to suit their objective.

I'm honestly sick to the back teeth of politics, sick of the media telling me what to think and sick to death of celebrities jumping on the bandwagon. I can't believe that these people dying is being turned into a political event. Just so stupid.

It happened. It shouldn't of happened and now we need to step back and stop listening to the media. I would like to see it turned into a criminal investigation. Fook the public enquiry, it takes years. The charge is manslaughter, let the police investigate it. In the meantime, stop blaming an as yet innocent person for all this shit.